I hope everyone is enjoying the holidays. I was in an airport all yesterday, so forgive me for not starting our discussion. Before I list the topics, I wanted to extend the challenge of commenting on at least one other person's feedback after or before you give yours.
Questions:
1. As a reader, what was your reaction to Asher's last exhibition in the book?
2. What do you think Chaim Potok's message is on living religiously in a secular world?
3. Is there a character you can relate with?
4. Do you have any questions????
My answers:
1. As a reader, what was your reaction to Asher's last exhibition in the book? Every time I read about Asher letting the "Brooklyn Crucifixtion" paintings go on display, I cringe inside. I can't read the exhibition opening scene with out fidgeting and feeling so uncomfortable. I just want to yell at Asher to just tell his parents. I'm still trying to understand why he doesn't give them a warning - especially his mother. He loves her so much and doesn't want to hurt her, yet lets her come to the gallery not knowing what she will see. Is it because he needs them to confront the situation, as he has? I don't know...
2. What do you think Chaim Potok's message is on living religiously in a secular world?I think that is a hard question with multiple answers! I think Chaim wants us as readers to realize that the answer can't be resolved easily. Aryeh Lev is able to live religiously by abstaining from "goy." But Asher is not able to do that - yet he is still a faithful Jew and follower of God, in his own eyes. Do we define our own limits? Does it depend on our heart? In the end, Asher will travel to "save the world" with his mythical ancestor, who seems more like his father by preaching pure Hasidim.
3. Is there a character you can relate with? I'm still thinking about this question...
4. Do you have any questions???? My question for you is this - what do you think of Chaim Potok's storytelling style? This is such a complex story, but Potok sets it up simply by starting it through a child's eyes. Also, I love how he uses the symbolism of the mythical, thundering ancestor throughout the story. We know exactly where Asher's concsious is.
One other thing Potok did - did you notice he never says who buys Asher's paintings or what famous artists Asher is studying with? I think he did it to remove the emphasis on how great Asher is and to focus it back on his internal struggle. Also, we don't know much about how Asher interacts with people. there aren't long conversations or descriptions of Asher at the beach with Jacob Kahn, we don't know anything about Asher dating the girl in France. Asher is set up to seem very isolated and alone, yet there are many people who are apart of his life and care about him - as we see when he is finally asked to move to Paris by the Rebbe, because he is hurting too many of his own people. I think Potok also uses this as a tool to again focus on the internal struggle and individual choice for how we choice to live and practice religion.
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4 comments:
1. I was cringing right along with Melissa. As I was reading, I kept wanting Asher to tell them, he had so many opportunities to do so. I think the reason he doesn't is to show his parents his hurt over the years.
2. I don't know that there is an answer. His book can be interpreted in so many ways regarding that issue. You see many examples along the spectrum: Aryeh, the Rebbe, jacob, Asher, even his mother. Religion is an individual choice and to judge someone by your standards doesn't work.
3. I don't know. I can understand each of them, but I don't think I can relate with any of them. I haven't had the same religious rigidity in my life, so I don't have something to compare it to in my life.
4. To answer Melissa's question-I liked and disliked his storytelling style. It was very simple and straightfoward which made it easy to read and follow along. But at the same time, it felt like the characters stagnated. We know Asher grows older and masters the art of painting, but we read that he is in college but I still only see him as a 6 year old boy.
Which leads me to my questions: I felt like Asher was an 'old soul' as a child, did you feel the same way or do you feel like it was an adult perspective on childhood happenings? and Do you find any irony in the story, specifically with regards towards Asher?
To my first question-I think he was an old soul. Throughout his conversations with his mother and then his experimentation with the cigarette ash, it seems like he already knew what the world was about and didn't need to pay attention to and experience things the way other children seem to need.
My other question-Asher's father works to bring Jews out of Russia and other countries where they are being oppressed b/c they are Jews and therefor different. Yet they cast out Asher for the very same reason. His painting is barely tolerated and then when 'Brooklyn Crucifix' came out, they full on reject him b/c of his depiction on the cross. The cross conjures images of Christ which is who has ultimatly brought on the jews suffering at the hands of christians b/c the 'jews killed jesus'. And yes, they dif but the romans were just as guilty and the whole crucifixion thing was an invention of the romans, not the christians. Romans were pagans. It felt like a lot of ignorance and intolerance on all sides but from Asher. He saw things equal, at lest that was the way I felt things portrayed.
Challenge-Since melissa is the only one who has given feedback: I think she shows great insight on the author's writing style. I hadn't consciously thought about the lack of naming the artists he was studying under except for jacob. It prevents the reader from getting starstruck, so to say, and to be able to focus on what Potok wanted to get across.
Great book, definitely wouldn't have read this one on my own.
Cat, I like your insight onto the second question. I hadn't thought about how there is a range of religious examples. Each signigicant character in the story is at a different place on the spectrum.
Oh - and here are my answer's to your questions, Cat. I also feel like Asher was an 'old soul' as a child, spefically after his mother became sick. He does seem the same age from 6-twenty something. Time runs together after a while.It took forever for him to begin training with Jacob Kahn, but time after that passed very quickly. Especially in the end when spending a year in Paris ended in 5-6 pages.
Yes, I agree that there is irony in the story regarding religious toleration.
Good questions. I have been pondering them and feeling very challenged which I like!
1. I felt for Asher in that moment. I didn't like that he didn't prepare his family for what they would see and yet I think Asher wanted them to see him and had hopes that they would understand and see his love for them and for his beliefs reflected in his paintings as a whole. I thought it was interesting that he couldn't find an image in his own religion to adequately express his feeling for his mom and her situation. I was sad to that she didn't see the love he had for her and his understanding of her situation in the image. I think the comment on the lack of tolerance is very applicable here. They were so appalled at the image, that they were blind to the emotion and reality of what the painting depicted.
2. I don't think he thinks it is possible.
3.I couldn't relate with any character. I felt for them, and liked some more than others, but I didn't relate to any of them, except maybe the love Jacob's wife had for books.
4.I liked his imagery. I felt the starkness of Asher's existence and though I didn't like the feeling, felt that he portrayed the emotions and set the feelings for the story very well. There were things that I didn't understand about the religion and he didn't really bother to explain. That slowed up my reading a bit, but just taught me to research it out a bit. I agree with Cat about the characters stagnating. It was difficult to see the growth. I didn't realize the passage of time until they mentioned the growth of hair on his chin.
5. I initially felt that Asher was an old soul in a child's body, but as he grew I felt that he stayed a 6 year old emotionally. Mostly in his inablity to stand up for what he needed emotionally. It seemed to me that when he was in Europe he was a man, and when he was with his family in Brooklyn he went back to being a 6 year old and fearing his parents in particular his father. I think some of that was the religious restrictions and mostly the emotional anchors from his youth. I really wanted his to stand up for himself to show his growth.
6. I honestly didn't even notice the artists. I noticed that one of the few times Asher seemed to feel joy where the summers with Jacob and his wife. I liked that even though Jacob's teaching brought eventual pain there were glimpses of joy in that relationship
7.I thought it was sad that a family would be so intolerant. Asher once said something to the effect of what about my life. I thought it was interesting that they taught the value of one life and yet didn't seem value the life of their son when it didn't follow the path they had chosen for him. More particularly his father. I think this happens more often than not and it is a good thing to see and learn from.
Challenge. I am grateful for Cat's comments on the intolerance. It was something that I did not originally see and yet once I opened my eyes to it, recognized it as a major theme of the book.
I don't think I would have read this book on my own, but I am grateful for the introduction to this author.
As for any questions I have, I didn't have any, just a thought of how sad it would be to have so little joy in life. Aside from the moments of warmth in the store, summers with Jacob and happy times with his mother, his life seemed so full of sorrow and loneliness.
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